My encounter with the Investors Group financial planner !
As promised, here's the details of my meeting with a sales representative (SR) from Investors Group (IG). Although he called himself a financial adviser or something similar, he was a very nice person. He was trying to convince my mother-in-law to hand out all her assets to IG. I was glad to be there to filter out the marketing fluff from the real substance. First, you have to know that SR won't tell you anything concrete. He's basically an intermediate between the IG computer and the client.
I was never able to get out of SR what types of investments he would recommend nor what were his 2-3 favorite mutual funds. His answer was "the computer will decide based on multiple factors"! I've also never seen so much agility in avoiding answering questions as when I asked about no load (commission free) funds! I had to assume that IG does not recommend/sell them. You basically have yo sign the contract before you know what you've signed into!
One point that really annoyed me is that I've asked many if there was other compensation than the performance based one (performance of the client's portfolio obviously). The answer was always NO. But then, when I read the contract proposal, it was written black on white that SR could receive sales commissions and other "bribes" from mutual fund companies, etc.
Conclusion? If you don't know anybody who has a clue about investing, taxes, estate matters and you don't know anything yourself, it might be better than nothing. I would personally advice you to find a fee based Certified Financial Planner (have a look in My Links for the official CFPs website). At least you won't be caught too much in the commission based world that smells of conflict of interest...
I've also heard that IG pushes a lot for borrowing money to invest (leveraging) which is definitely not for everyone.
I want to be fair to IG though: they might be a very honest company and make very good money for their client. I just don't like their selling model.
What I'm proposing to do now instead for my mother-in-law is to open her a no-fee Etrade RRSP account. I'll suggest her investment in low cost ETFs index funds while trying to diversify as much as possible. Maybe the good old "couch potatoe" theory will do the trick. I might be tempted though to go with one or two solid low cost mutual funds with good track records like CIBC Monthly income and CHOU RRSP (which I find is a very good defensive play). This approach has worked very well for me so far. My CHOU RRSP resisted very well through the Tech Bust.
If anybody is curious, I can answer questions about my IG experience by email or on the blog.
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note: I was really glad that I was ready for this encounter, having read John Lawrence Reynolds' book, The Naked Investor which I highly recommend.
40 comments:
One of those reasons to promote leveraging from the perspective of a "financial advisor",is unfortunately ... comissions. Especially if the comissions is based on the size of the portfolio.
Their cut / percentage depends upon the assets under management. I'm also not simply talking about front / back-loads on the funds. And don't forget to ask what are "trailing" comissions that they received. Any adviser/salesman not willing to discuss how trailing comissions work need not be part of your consideration. If they can't be up front about how they make money, will they be up front about managing your money?
That's so true Investorial! Thanks for pointing it out. That's exactly the impression I got from talking to the IG guy. He never mentionned any other fees than performance fees, but the contract clearly stated that ther e could be direct commissions and trailer fees. Not very upfront indeed ...
I am currently seeing an IG rep and found this info useful. I would like to add that I am certain they would want me to transfer my mortgage to thiers which currently is 1.4% more. I got thier rate from thier web site. I will wait to see what they say and propose. Currently we are gathering financial data.
My husband and I just attended the IG seminar and found some of their products quite interesting. But in summary, they want you to transfer everything you have to them, and I guess like you all said the bigger the portfolio the bigger the "commission" they get. Anyhow, we have set up a appointment to meet with one of their consultant - probably more like sale rep and see what they got to offer. But I glad to read some comment here to prepare myself for some "non-disclosure" information.
I am a client of Investors Group and have never been happier. Where i was prior to meeting my advisor was a bank. They never managed my accounts or really kept me in touch with what was going on. They basically did what they had to to get me out the door. My IG advisor has been more helpful than i could have ever imagined with teaching me little things as we go, informing me about all their services and products and compairing them fairly to others, and i guess what i like most about Investors Group is that they deal with my entire financial situation. My insurance is more than adiquate, they set up an estate plan, my retirement is planned and i have the opportunity to retire comfortably and early, they do all my mortgages and lending, and yes... i am doing a leverage with them which if explained and implimented properly is an amazing concept.
I guess, in summary... If you find a good Investors Group consultant/advisor they will make your life and future more bright and promissing than you ever imagined. They take the guess work and stress out of the future allowing you to sit back and deal with day to day problems. As far as compensation goes, my advisor was who told me about all the ways he gets paid, and although he gets paid well for what he does, he is doing more for me than any other bank or other financial institution that i met with.
I hope you guys all find what your looking for, and remember... you get what you pay for, and being cheep (fumbling around with a MER difference of decimal points) than you will get what you pay for, CHEEP service and a head ache down the road!
GOOD LUCK ALL!!
I recently received an email from Investor Group offering an "entrepreneurial job." I wanted to look into just what they were offering. The words "Entrepreneurial" caught my attention and made me envision being a sales guy. It was interesting to read your take on your experience with investors group. The website seemed to provide little information other than "attend the seminar."
While this could be a good opportunity for some people, cold sales and fleecing people for commissions when I know there are much better options out there isn't something I'd be comfortable doing.
Well my wife and I are both teachers again. We invested our commuted pensions 8 years ago and have had a real roller coaster ride ending with this week and are left with about half of our money. IG sales rep replies that the future is in God's hands with regards to our money. I don't remember seeing his name on the contract. We are now feeling very ill about our prospects. We have little to say except that we are very unhappy with Investors Group and our lives are looking very bleak unless we get incredible returns soon. What can we do? We have put our money with them in good faith and they have lost it. Is there anything we can do? When 9/11 happened and we lost half our money we went back to work and now 6 years later we are at the same level. Why can't they react more quickly to save our capital?
If you have a few spare hours a day to research stocks and funds and look to save that 0.1% MER, then all the power to you.
For most people like myslef, I don't have time nor the desire to spend endless hours surfing the net or reading books to keep myslef up to date.
I have been an IG client for 12 years and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I am far better with him than I would have been without him.
I used to get nothing from my bank whereas my IG consultant has shown me ways to save taxes every year, get goo returns and how to achieve my goals.
It's not just about fund/stock picking. It's about developing a plan and sticking to it.
Rondon: you need to find an advisor you can trust, regardless of the company he/she works for. When you are close to retirement, I believe that a large portion of your investment should be safe (government bonds for example. You could go after your advisor if he's hidden from you the real risk of your portfolio.
You may want to start here: http://www.iiroc.ca/English/Investors/ResolveComplaint/Pages/SeekingCompensation.aspx
You can find good tips here: http://www.cipf.ca/c_go_tips.htm
anonymous ("If you have a few spare hours a day to research stocks and funds and look to save that 0.1% MER, then all the power to you.")
-> In the cases I've seen, we are talking about saving close to 2% a year. That's huge! That said, if you have a good advisor that you trust and he has a good plan for you, then all the power to you :-)
I came to Investor's Group 3 years ago aprox. I have never received such a outstanding service before. I got phone calls back and my questions were all answered. I was with TDW before and their level of service was very distant. I felt I was a number to them.
I've been an IG client for 12 years and I have never been happier. The service is outstanding. I have been regularily contacted by my consultant during these turbulent times and I know that is not the case as many of my friends have not even been getting their messages returned from their advisors at the banks.
My IG funds have performed well and the strategies that I have implemented is saving me thousands in taxes.
I would recommend my IG consultant to anyone and everyone. Top notch all the way!
Well the comments on Investors Group go back to 2006 when I was reasonbly happy with them. But recently Investors Group have lost a LOT of my money!
You may say that so have other people, but hear what happened:
Back in August 2008 when the writing was clearly on the wall for a decline, I wanted to move my funds to fixed income bonds. The sales person at IG gave me endless argumetn about staying with the markets, and that it would eventually turn around, and no-one knew when etc. etc.
Her arguments were getting to be a bit bullying. I caved in and left my portfolio as it was - though I gave instructions that no product was to be purely equity (this was ignored).
When the decline started in September 08, you would think that she would have changed to what I wanted in the first place, but no. I was in Europe for two months and unable to follow events daily.
Due to this salespersons "advice" I had also left considerable funds invested in the markets at TD Waterhouse. These too plummeted.
Now to get my money out of Investors Group they are going to charge me 5% plus a brokerage fee. This is about $40,000 for a terrible disservice!
At Investors Group I had $1,250,00 in Jan 08, now I will get back $915,000. (In addition to this loss their advice has lost me $450,000 at TD Waterhouse.)
I am withdrawing my funds from Investors Group and they will never see me again.
They are still using the tag line on their letters:
"Bear markets are ALWAYS the temporary interruption of a permanent uptrend."
They have fooled a LOT of people for a LOT of commission.
My wife and I met a IG "sales" type at a local home show. Fill out an information tag and win a years worth of gas. He contacted us and wanted a meeting to review our RRSP mutual funds. We agreed. He also wanted faxed copies of our statements before hand. I sent them. During the meeting he showed us where we had lost 24% paper value with Scotia McLeod where as we only would have lost 16% had we been with him. He also wanted to sell us life insurance and wanted us to take out a loan to fill up unused room in our RRSP. When I mentioned we had 30k to invest this year he was very excited. At the end of the hour and a half meeting he pulled out two forms to transfer our holdings to him. I balked at that and said I needed time to think about it and that I would first talk to my current Scotia McLeod guy. He did not like this at all. Make a long story short. I met with the Scotia McLeod guy, we made some changes and I gave him the 30K. IG guy was not happy about that. After I canceled the second meeting with him where he expected to "hook" us, he called to express his displeasure and asked why. I simply told him we were more comfortable with our old guy, but the real reason is that we simply found him too pushy. Too many emails, too many phone calls, to much pressure. We just could not see having a long term relationship with him even if he were to make us more money.
I've just invested nearly $900,000 with IG and now I am VERY nervous. Any advice?
Anonymous: IG is not a bad company. I think it really depends how you've invested your money. If you have a lot of safe fixed investments, then no worry. If you have a very aggressive portfolio, ask your planner to evaluate the risk with you.
READING COMENTS RE INVESTORS GROUP HAS ME WONDERING ....MY EXPERIENCE WAS REALLY BAD ...GOT CAUGHT...FORCED INTO MONEY MARKET TO ESCAPE EQUITIES...THEN TRIED TO PULL MY FUNDS OUT ...$15000.00 PENALTY...PLUS BAD ADVICE FROM THEM ( I PAID FOR)...2 YR LOSS $50,000.00..TRIED TO MOVE MORTGAGE..QUOTE ME $3000.00 PENALTY THEN DOUBLED IT 3 DAYS LATER...COST ME 6000.00...NICE HUH...I COULD GO ON ....SO DISSAPOINTING
450.000.00
Most of the positive comments in this review must be from IG advisers doing some damage control. Because nobody in their right mind would ever invest with IG if they knew how they're structured internally and most importantly, the detrimental affect of their fees on retirement savings (high MER's, back load fees...). I wonder how many "average investors" who "leveraged" in the last 2 years are now not sleeping well at night. The IG adviser is sleeping like a baby. GOOD LUCK TO ALL!
I have just left IG...and paid the back-end loads just to get out. I'll make up more than that cost in one year thanks to lower MER's.
When this latest financial mess hit, I started looking at how investing worked and came upon the index funds. I have moved to e-series index funds at TD and am saving 2.3% annually on MER. I was very ignorant of how MER worked and when I found out I was paying IG ~$4000 a year for their services, that was that.
If you like paying alot for a service you can provide yourself, then by all means, continue with IG. If not, do a little research, save alot of money.
I was invested with IG for 8 years, only to find out that not only do they charge the highest fees in the industry, but my investment portfolio was very poorly looked after. I got absolutely no service. In August of 2008 I "dared" to ask for my daughters RESP funds in order to pay her university tuition .I had to wait for 3 weeks to get my money, I ended up borrowing the $7,000 from the bank. IG's excuse for the delay? "Your money was sent out by regular mail and the mail is slow, you should give it time, we are not responsible for the slow mail..."
During the recent market crash I lost 27% of my portfolio, no one from IG even bothered to contact me, my IG advisor was MIA. At that point I decided to take my business elsewhere, to someone who actually keeps in touch with me and advises me of all my options. We gave a "sell" order to IG and this time around it took them 18 days to send my money to me, all by regular mail that was according to them slow again. This time around I had lost a hefty amount that could have been invested in a revived market while waiting and waiting. My life's savings were in IG's hands and they played with it while I waited and waited.I contacted IG's compliance officer who was not at all surprised and was told that they always use regular mail, not even registered mail if you choose to redeem your investments. How strange, that in this day and age of electronic and wire transfers they choose the slowest and the least secure method when it comes to their clients funds... How come it takes long weeks to get access to your OWN MONEY? it just sounds like a lame and unbelievable excuse, is the small investor at their mercy? I doubt that this is the way they transfer their own funds.
I was told by The Mutual Fund Dealers Association that IG is not a banking institution and therefore do not have to comply with banking rules that much more strict. There are many complaints against IG, I believe that I and othersshould be fully compensated for our losses. Beware of dealings with them, their business practices do not serve their clients best interest and are questionable at best.
These comments are laughable for the most part. It would be no different than reading a 100 negative commentaries from people who brought their cars to a Mechanic yet know absolutely nothing about a car. I am a CFP a CLU and a CSA not that the majority of you would know what that is. I do not work for IG but can tell you that for the most part the negative comments above stem from ignorance. Its quite unfortunate actually. Each and every one of you of you works for commission. Do you really think that a "salary" is any different? Do you have targets that you are supposed to hit? Does your employer have expectations of you or you wouldn't have a job? Anyone who makes a buck is on commission! Advisors with companies such as IG make trailers on assets and that is their bread and butter over the long term. The more you make, they make. They have a vested interest in you doing well. If your portfolio tanks their trailers tank. Do you think they should do everything No Load? Great concept. Why should they make money on you? Your advisor should be a volunteer right? Just like you go to work everyday and would do so whether you got paid or not? Give your head a shake and and leave it to professionals. Are there bad apples at IG and other firms? Of course! If you have a consultant network of 4000+ how could their not be? Just as there are in teaching, armed forces, physicians, lawyers etc...
IG adviser or other doing some damage control or causing more damage...
"These comments are laughable for the most part (ok and you are?). It would be no different than reading a 100 negative commentaries from people who brought their cars to a Mechanic yet know absolutely nothing about a car, not that the majority of you would know what that is (most mechanics and service staff at car dealers and mom and pop shops are dishonest). I am a CFP a CLU and a CSA (certified financial planner, chartered life underwriter and certified senior adviser. Don’t know for sure but did Vincent Lacroix, Edward Jones and Mr, Madoff have similar credentials? ). I do not work for IG (yeah right! And if not, you should as you you clearly have what it takes) but can tell you that for the most part the negative comments above stem from ignorance (first thing you guys say to defend yourselves when you've been cornered. How can any of this have any truth to it????). Its quite unfortunate actually. Each and every one of you of you works for commission . Do you really think that a "salary" is any different? Do you have targets that you are supposed to hit? Does your employer have expectations of you or you wouldn't have a job? Anyone who makes a buck is on commission! Advisors with companies such as IG make trailers on assets and that is their bread and butter over the long term. The more you make, they make. They have a vested interest in you doing well. If your portfolio tanks their trailers tank. (manipulative and disgraceful comments only to justify yourselves) Do you think they should do everything No Load? Great concept. Why should they make money on you? Your advisor should be a volunteer right? ( no, we expect to be WELL informed about your fees before we get into the trap…)Just like you go to work everyday and would do so whether you got paid or not? (Not comparable and please do not add insult to injury. You’re a money hungry human being who only cares about making money, for you) Give your head a shake and and leave it to professionals (professionals?) Are there bad apples at IG and other firms? Of course! (agree) If you have a consultant network of 4000+ how could their not be? Just as there are in teaching, armed forces, physicians, lawyers etc... (agree).
I hope all of you have a chance to read this as these arguments from a person who is a (certified financial planner, chartered life underwriter and certified senior adviser). Obviously these arguments are only to protect and justify the on goings of their misleading practices. GOOD LUCK TO ALL.
Clearly many of the people who have left a blog on this post have some understanding of the finacial industry, but how many people out there don't even know what a MER is? These are the people that are living beyond thier means, buying image and ego.
I will be working for IG, and thank all of you for writting your comments on consultants failing to fully reveal thier compensation and being pushy. I believe in sincerity and honesty, and will disclose all this info to my clients because I believe that it is the right thing to do, apparently not everyone feels the same way, that will be thier error in the long run as clearly it leads to unhappy clients.
I have made a huge career shift, due to the financial crisis, that forced me to pull my head out of the sand.
My Mother has seen a return on $14.00 on her $10,000 CIBC account in 4 years, My huband lost, completly lost, 23% of his investment with RBC and they carged us $1400 to remove $6100 from his RRSP.
When dealing with our local branches they, and I, have never spoken to the same person twice, I at least hope to offer some stability to my clients, something I wish I had recieved from my bank.
I read alot of blogs before I chose to join IG, but I also spoke to alot of friends, neighbors and co-workers. Everyones feedback was great, thise who had relations with IG were happy, those that choose to invest elsewhere had never heard from thier friends anything bad with the exception of one friend who is unhappy to pay back-load fees and is willing to wait 7 years for the fees expire, but expire they will at which time he can with draw the funds without the back-end fee. To me this reads he wants the company to work for him without him paying, on the other hand IG invests his money and makes a return as well...to me that is a fair trade.
My hope is to help people manage thier money and understand thier investments.
I understand not all, and maybe most, advisors at EVERY institution (yes, we are salespeople, but so are the bank's advisors...they have sales quotas too!) do not do this. I know that my husband was told he would have lots of money from RBC if he only contributed $100/month (he was 26 when he started this)...that did not work out the way thier salesperson stated it would at all either. Who do I blame for that, myself, I knew nothing about investments and trusted the banks salesperson to do what was best for us. Was he happy to earn his commision or just unaware that his company would not be able to manage the credit crisis, when he enrolled me? Who knows.
ALL this to say, if you don't like your advisor change advisors. Ask your friends and family for references, they will be honest with you.
I tip my waitress and the guy who carries my groceries, we are paid for our work, we pay others for thiers, it keeps the world in motion.
A better use for all of our time may be creating a website where those of us with experiance and education (and I have no problem saying I am green, but I will keep learning Because I love this Business.) can, in plain english, explain how investing works to the point where people can invest on thier own without advisement.A free service where we volunteer our paid for education.
Anyone?
I think everyone has made good point and with that being said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However I believe the issue that is mostly debated now days is the fact that some investors are paying too much in fees for the advice they’re getting, especially in Canada. I would definitely pay 2.8% to 3.5% in management fees if I knew my returns were going to be well above average but no one knows how well the markets will do in the future. So why pay more if there is no real reason? Ok, you might need a will and mandate, life insurance or leverage on your home maybe… but is this worth an extra 1.75% of your entire portfolio? Management expense ratios (MER) should not cost more than 1.5% per year and the advice should come from someone who has in dept knowledge of all areas of finance. Unfortunately there are a lot of uninformed people (mostly younger 18 to 30 and the elderly) who get involved with some investment firms who only focus on the money coming into the firm apposed to the clients real interests. Mr. Adviser (you know who you are) can argue and debate this until you’re blue in the face but it is what it is. One thing to remember, there are more good ones than bad ones but always due diligence folks.
Regarding the person who wrote
"IG adviser or other doing some damage control or causing more damage..."
Sounds like you have had some bad experiences in the past but wouldn't be surprised if you're a little behind in life in most areas. You took the time to slag pretty much everything in that post without offering much at all.
Also sounded like you're knocking credentials? You pointed out some crooks that may have them too. The credentials don't make them crooks and I would suggest that all people look for credentials when seeking an advisor.
Go back to your job and I promise not to give advice about your field as I probably know nothing about it ---- your comments are the ones that are dangerous!
Some posts by IG advisors, some posts by RBC and Edward Jones advisors, that's the internet for you.
I'm an IG Consultant, just for disclosure. We have all kinds of people, some are pushy, some won't talk to a prospect with less than 100k investable assets, some are easy going.
Despite all the talk, our MERs aren't out of line with other full services financial planning operations, like RBC for example, our returns are actually quite strong, especially in Dividend, Global and Emerging Markets equities, you can do the research yourself. You can choose between No Load and DSC for pretty much every fund that we offer.
The reason that I took a job at a commission house instead of a fee only house is that I view financial planning as a lifelong relationship. I don't want my clients to have a reason not to call me, take an appointment with me or ask me to take them out to lunch to talk about changes in their lives. Any time that their circumstances change I can bring them in to update their financial plan and it costs them nothing. I feel responsible for the ongoing financial health of my clients, and I'm proactive about finding opportunities for them and ensuring that their plans are on track.
As someone said earlier, we have 4500 planners, and over 1 million clients (over 2 million if you include Mackenzie and who knows how many more if you include Great West Life) so people will have good experiences and bad experiences.
Run Run Run if you are thinking of investing with IG. Most banks have no load funds vice front and back end funds which IG has. Also their advisors take a 4/5 week course which covers the basic of financial planning but mainly deals with getting you to invest with IG. They also have high MER's. PS i was a financial planner CFP and was recruited by IG so i am not talking bull
Although IG MERs are slightly higher than the Industry average, however their funds perform well compare to the industry average and also if you are only looking just for a "product" you should not deal with IG. A knowledgeable IG rep can provide you with a great financial plan but dont excpect them to teach you. IG is not an investement school nor a place to gamble. I have accumulated a great deal of wealth with this company , no disappointemnt so far.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/number-cruncher/some-pricey-funds-that-deliver/article1264147/
Hi,
Thanks for posting this. I agree with everything said here about the Mutual Fund representatives at Investors Group.
Do you know the depth of training these folks receive? Pay for there own Mutual Funds License Course -> Self-Study -> 2-Week Course on how to operate the computer system.
These folks are then asked to approach family and friends first (you know... they trust you... you may as well 'try' your 'profession' with your family's future first).
When selling your own products it would be difficult to convince anyone that yours is the best. Have you ever gone into a Car dealership and been asked to leave because the car you need is in the competitor's lot behind you?
You need to find an advisor that works with a company that does not have their own products... so instead of Advisor 1 using Company 1 Mutual Funds s/he is instead using funds from Mackenzie, Dynamic, Franklin Templeton, CI, etc... and you want your advisor to be able to offer individual stocks, bonds, segregated funds, ETFs, etc, etc...
IG won't be getting into a proper portfolio with you anytime soon.
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The other thing talked about is in the notes is Commissions. Now, I have a philosophy on Commissions and Financial Advisors (because it is a huge disconnect in the industry). If you have a financial advisor who tries to avoid the questions of what he gets paid... then you are in trouble.
If instead you have an advisor that clearly lays out how he gets paid while also investing your money in a way that the most important factor is your portfolio and somewhere down the line of importance is commissions then YOU would be likely to tell all your friends and family that they have to sit down with this chap because it is REAL...
This industry is full of a lot of folks who do this because they need to do something to make money. But there are a few who are extremely good and passionate about what they are doing and why they are doing it.
You may have been able to read through my message here but it is potentially obvious that I myself am an advisor and am a REAL one.
If you would like to - email me at Hojo2019@yahoo.com - I can answer any questions you have regarding your current investments but more importantly provide you an opinion of the advisor/firm you are working with.
With most folks all I need is the name of the institution to know what your porfolio looks like *not very personalized eh?*
Thanks CMR
Wish I'd read this blog earlier this year - I would never have allowed an IG SR into my home. My experience with IG SR is basically the same issues faced by others who have posted here - too many high pressure sales tactics to sign the contract before IG SR will even tell you what they recommend. Too much pressure to sell off all current assets and buy their proprietary products - they will tell you their products are structured the same as what you hold now with the same holdings, but IG's are "better".
IG has a "process" to follow when you sign up with them and they will not deviate from it. Like all investors are made from a cookie cutter. To the person who plans to become an IG SR - good luck to you if you don't follow the IG process. IG doesn't like non-conformists in their sales staff.
It's all about finding the right fit with a financial advisor - the IG SR was not a good listener, maybe because he did not want to hear that I would not sign over my life savings and "just trust him". The experience has left me with a very negative view of the company as a whole.
We were clients of Investors for over fifteen years. We knew nothing about investing, in fact were afraid of it. We were the perfect stooge-clients. When the times were good, they acted as if it was because of their superb planning skills. When things were bad, it was the market's fault. We nodded our heads and thought how lucky we were to be taken care of.
Then a chance encounter with a friend who'd been an investment advisor opened our eyes. As we became smarter about MERs (management expense rations) and DSC (deferred service charges) we realized how 'screwed' we'd been. At about the same time my husband was preparing to retire - and we were assured everything was in place. Plus we'd been talked into buying $200,000 worth of leverage money - and then the market crashed. We discovered that Investors has the highest MERs in the country, they had never explained to us about DSCs, so any new funds we had were locked in for seven years or we had to pay exorbitant fees to get the money out. All - 100% - of our portfolio were in equities - none in fixed income, etc. in anticipation of my husband's retirement. We lost 1/3 of our portfolio almost over night. When we formally complained to IG in Winnipeg, we were shown in the very small print that we had basically said that we had agreed to everything and that even if our advisor have checked off boxes for us, we'd still signed at the bottom. We didn't have a clue. In my opinion, their behavior borders on criminal.
We were stupid, and we are paying for it. No retirement. But they have paid for nothing, since they continue to get their fees off the top of any money we might make. Meanwhile our two leverage loans are now a little more than half of what we bought them at.
Anyone who is well informed would never be a client of Investor's. They prey on those who are afraid to research and ask hard questions. We have learned that the hard way.
We knew nothing about investing when we started and trusted the advice of a good friend who was an IG adviser. After a couple of warning signs… we left Investors Group after 10 years and it’s been the best financial decision of our lives so far. The moral of our story is you can’t trust just anybody with your life savings, not even good friends or family regardless of whom and where they work. Food for thought: statistics prove that Canadians are paying the highest fees for financial advice compared to all other industrialized countries. Now guess who sells the most mutual funds in Canada? You got it ¬– Investors Group. Enough said?
Financial advisors of any stripe, be they IG, TD, RBC or otherwise, are compensated based on commissions generated from the assets under management. This is hardly new, and certainly doesn't suggest that IG is complicit in some sort of "scam". This is nonsense.
Another way advisor's are paid is through mutual fund trailers - or "bribes" as they are described here. Again, investment advisors from RBC, IG, TD - they all receive trailers from reputable fund companies based on the assets invested through their clients.
As for "commission free" or no load mutual funds - there is no such thing. Take a look at the management fees and the MER that are baked into the mutual fund NAVPS (price per unit). Whether you pay up front or not, the fund manager is getting paid.
Afraid, like rickmav who posted earlier, I was also taken in by a dishonest IG representative. Again I was advised to take out investment loans and that even based on conservative fund returns I would easily cover my loan costs. I was advised that an expected portfolio return of 8% was being conservative, that I should get 10% or greater per annum. I asked to see portfolios taken out before 2000 as I wanted to see the effect of the dot-com melt down on peoples portfolios - the iG consultant only produced a chart of 1 fund, 3 meetings later - I had to ask 3 times at different meetings before I got to see what was likely the only fund which broke even in 2005. Too late, I had already signed up. Ever wondered why IG cannot provide any fund history longer than 5 years for funds which dont perform - read an article called "shooting the wounded" written by Jonathon Chevreau in the Financial Post:http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/wealthyboomer/archive/2008/09/03/shoot-the-wounded-investors-group-fund-mergers-will-make-performance-look-better.aspx
This shows how crooked IG company is. There was a class action law suit in Quebec against investors Group for mis-guiding investors by suggesting they take out investment loans to increase their retirement savings. The IG consultant totally mis-reprepresented the risks involved. In my view it is a criminal offence for a financial consultant to purposefully misguide the public for their own gain. Not what the Quebec judge thought though - he said investors did not have to take the financial cosultants advice. Guess I shouldn't take my doctors advice either - as he could be trying to screw me over for his own benefit -just like my IG financial advisor did - eh judge??
So after loosing all my money, then Solutions Banking :(Investors Group and Bank of Canada) decide to increase the loan costs. If other people have been mis-guided into taking out investment loans with Investors Group - please get in touch. I cannot recommend this company - suggest everyone looking to invest look elsewhere.
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Here is a link to the exact same fund. One sold at IG and one that you get anywhere else.
http://globefunddb.theglobeandmail.com/gishome/plsql/igf.fund_pro?fundname=IG+AGF+Canadian+Balanced-B&iaction=Get+Fund+Profile
http://www.morningstar.ca/globalhome/quicktakes/Fund_Overview.asp?fundid=3471
On a million dollars just by switching to a non IG fund from AGF you would save $5400.00 a year.
If you are an investor with a million dollars you should be paying at the most 1.5% a year in fees. That would save you $15400 a year, and probably get you an amazing broker who could act tactically for you on the market.
I also want to make a point that IG sales people are not able to sell individual stocks and bonds, and are not Investment Advisors. Most do not know jack about the economy or market. The average rate
This is to "anonymous": Are you nuts? With $900,000 in investable assests you should be in very safe investments like GIC's...not paying you much but you have already made it..just stay safe...and stay away from Investors Group advisors if you want to retire.
Response to annonnnnnnn: How right you are!! Investors Group advisers don't know jack about investing or the economy. Some I think will try their best and are GOOD people, but that is where alot of financial advisers "start" their careers; check your newpapers. Others already know the ropes of theft and deceit, so be careful when dealing with them, you might get a dud and find youself having to go to court. Don't be fooled people; there are ways that advisers steal without you even knowing unless someone else knows the score.
PLEASE...anyone leaving a positive comment on this blog about Investors Group must be in dreamland. It is a joke period. I was an investor for too many years with them so give me a break.
Unbeleivable:
I see alot of negative comments about fees, commision, trailers, IG funds. It's true!
But lets set everyone straight:
1) There are back end loaded fees (after 7 yrs the fee falls of). There are absolutely no front end loaded fees. Some brokers have FE loads and some actually churn accounts (get paid twice on the same investmnt). 2) You have the option of Back end loads or no loads. Some advisors make this known and maybe some don't. The fact is most people forget about this discussion 5 mins after the fact. 3)Yes there's a trailer fee. it comes from the part of the MER. MER is what pays the expenses of the fund. Guess what EVERY mutual fund in the world has an MER. 4) IG funds only... IG has access to third party funds. Sure they get paid more on their own, but look if you're getting a written financial plan that makes sense and works for you shouldn't you pay for it?? It's not the March of Dimes! Finally lets look at the bank structure... Branches.. No load funds and they get paid every week regardless of how your funds perform or if you stay with them(there's no accountability). Brokrages (TDW, RBCD, ect..) They won't look at you unless you're "High Net Worth" and guess what they get paid the same way IG consultants do!
How about churning?? I had a good portion of my portfolio churned away. Now I'll be lucky if I have enough left to get to 65. Canada doesn't have sufficient laws..they are all smoke and mirrors. Investors who get taken have few means for any restitution. Advisers know this so they just do as they please. Take my advice, anyone with any money, somebody else wants it. Invest it yourself. Stay away from advisers. Our laws here are too primitive and will never support you. If this continues, a large portion of people are going to be left destitute. If I find myself there, society will have to look after me and not my fault.
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